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#51 2012-02-06 19:03:39

natura
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

Eden wrote:

"Open yourself to the Tao,
then trust your natural responses;
and everything will fall into place."

Lao Tzu

Yes, Ďopen yourself to the Taoí, thatís all you need and then everything is OK.

Itís like a joke I read in this forum previously:

You can easily win a million.
The only thing you need is to climb up Mont Everest barefoot.


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#52 2012-02-06 19:07:20

natura
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

Eden wrote:

Accept the world as it is.
If you accept the world,
the Tao will be luminous inside you
and you will return to your primal self.

Lao Tzu

Neither acceptation nor denial...

Thatís the beauty of Krishnamurti.

Isnít it, Eden?


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#53 2012-02-06 19:57:54

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

Lao Tsu--"accept the world as it is"

K--"I do not mind what happens"

Interpretation is what separates these two sayings.


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#54 2012-02-06 22:33:27

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

joe wrote:

Lao Tsu--"accept the world as it is"

K--"I do not mind what happens"

Interpretation is what separates these two sayings.

ĎI donít mind what happensí doesnít mean Iím OK with all that lie, hypocrisy, bloodsheds and other mischiefs and conflicts of this world. Iím extremely unsatisfied with it and want most passionately to get out of it as soon as possible.
I donít accept all that and condemn it, but I donít also deny it; I donít just say itís normal and has to be that way.
I just say, that all is inevitable, and moreover, it leads to a bigger crisis in this humanís world until the human mentality, my own mentality will be changed.
So, I donít bother myself with changing of this world in anyway.
Iím way too busy with daily meditation to be changed myself, but being in that Iím not blind to the problems and sufferings of the other people.

If you like this interpretation, joe

In plain words, neither nor to this world, and Iím way too busy for all that shitty staff.

Last edited by natura (2012-02-06 22:44:09)


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#55 2012-02-07 02:57:04

pearl
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Re: Cool Quotes.

Anyone resonably sensitive can see this, that humanbeings are suffering, trapped in their own delusional thinking, so it's no big deal that one goes on acknowledging the suffering of the world.  The question remains, have you ended the suffering that is you?  Has time, the process of becoming, acquiring totally come to an end in you?  Well, you don't need to answer this one as it is obvious that nobody has ended it.  One may have a great house on a great beach, and a pretty wife and doting children, a good job, some friends, great knwoledge, but stillyou're like everyone else caught in the stream of consciousness.  It is of interest to me and curiosity to see if anyone would ever step out of it.

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#56 2012-02-07 05:01:23

Eden
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2009-05-08
Posts: 5508

Re: Cool Quotes.

pearl wrote:

stillyou're like everyone else caught in the stream of consciousness.  It is of interest to me and curiosity to see if anyone would ever step out of it.

A real man isn't going to waste his time like K did trying to step out of it and lead the poor little sheep out of it. Rather a real man is going to step into it fully and open it all to God. Such a man will bloom it open and transmute it all into love.  Any pussy can go to a mountain top and step out of it...a real man will step into it with full love and full presence and meet it all with a fully open heart and press his love deep until it is all totally transformed.  What happens then you can't even begin to imagine. Now that's something you should be interested to see.

No "stepping out" is needed.  Just a love and consciousness of greater power than "the stream". Probably though you haven't the slightest clue of what I am pointing to as your only reference to reality is your beloved K. That's ok too. Some people still need their beloved crutches and their little havens of safety to be undisturbed.  We all have needed that at times.

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#57 2012-02-07 07:49:37

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

natura wrote:

joe wrote:

Lao Tsu--"accept the world as it is"

K--"I do not mind what happens"

Interpretation is what separates these two sayings.

ĎI donít mind what happensí doesnít mean Iím OK with all that lie, hypocrisy, bloodsheds and other mischiefs and conflicts of this world. Iím extremely unsatisfied with it and want most passionately to get out of it as soon as possible.
I donít accept all that and condemn it, but I donít also deny it; I donít just say itís normal and has to be that way.
I just say, that all is inevitable, and moreover, it leads to a bigger crisis in this humanís world until the human mentality, my own mentality will be changed.
So, I donít bother myself with changing of this world in anyway.
Iím way too busy with daily meditation to be changed myself, but being in that Iím not blind to the problems and sufferings of the other people.

If you like this interpretation, joe

In plain words, neither nor to this world, and Iím way too busy for all that shitty staff.

Well, that is certainly one way to interpret it...but, just to counterpoint, natura,  I accept the world as it is and I don't mind what happens are to me saying the same thing.


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#58 2012-02-07 13:42:36

pearl
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Re: Cool Quotes.

Eden wrote:

pearl wrote:

stillyou're like everyone else caught in the stream of consciousness.  It is of interest to me and curiosity to see if anyone would ever step out of it.

A real man isn't going to waste his time like K did trying to step out of it and lead the poor little sheep out of it. Rather a real man is going to step into it fully and open it all to God. Such a man will bloom it open and transmute it all into love.  Any pussy can go to a mountain top and step out of it...a real man will step into it with full love and full presence and meet it all with a fully open heart and press his love deep until it is all totally transformed.  What happens then you can't even begin to imagine. Now that's something you should be interested to see.

No "stepping out" is needed.  Just a love and consciousness of greater power than "the stream". Probably though you haven't the slightest clue of what I am pointing to as your only reference to reality is your beloved K. That's ok too. Some people still need their beloved crutches and their little havens of safety to be undisturbed.  We all have needed that at times.

You couldn't be more wrong.  No transformation is possible in the stream of consciousness, none.  Maybe a little change here and there but, radically fundamentally none.  But wait, do you see that you are the stream, the whole of it?  And that there is really no one separate from it who then you must change, open transform because there is nothing to be "opened up".  There is nothing to be done, nobody to whom you should do anything, show anything, teach anything.  This is where you fall into the trap like everyone else, wanting to change, show, teach, open others which is nothing new.  Lots of people have talked about it prior to you and will continue after you're long gone, and yet there is really nothing you or anyone can do about any of it, but to only tranfrom yourself fundamentally not in time, eventually... but in each and every moment which requires tremendous passion, energy which you cannot embody swimming in the murky waters of the stream of consciousness which is YOU, which is humanity.  But good luck with this wanting to "open up" everything to god or what ever which in my understanding is nothing more than a nice romantic, dreamy idea.  You may convince others and yourself but not someone who is aware of every trick and trade of the self.  Maybe you should try a david d forum or something for a change where you might find someone actually to.

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#59 2012-02-07 15:11:11

Eden
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2009-05-08
Posts: 5508

Re: Cool Quotes.

pearl wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong.  No transformation is possible in the stream of consciousness, none.

What happens when one has already transformed oneself from that place of stillness? That is what I am talking about. I am talking about a person who is already whole, and you are still talking about those who are in the process of becoming whole.  We are both correct. We are just talking about two different persons.

Once one is whole, one can and may step back into stream and bring the full light of consciousness and love into it and transform it and transmute it.  Even a curse word can be transmuted into loving poetry if connected to the heart.  Pretty much anything can.  Any sword can be beaten into a plow shear when one's heart is full of love. 

A real man will step right into your patterns and love you through them and turn them into humor and laughter. In doing so they change.  Do you understand what I mean by that?  He won't try to step out of them or avoid them or fix them, rather he will bring is fullest and deepest love into them.  He is able to do that because he has already done the necessary work on himself and no doubt already came to a place where he was able to bring love and laughter into his own patterns too. If he hadn't, he certainly wouldn't be able to laugh at yours and love you through them and break the shells wide open in love, with a smile on his face.

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#60 2012-02-07 16:24:07

natura
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

joe wrote:

natura wrote:

joe wrote:

Lao Tsu--"accept the world as it is"

K--"I do not mind what happens"

Interpretation is what separates these two sayings.

ĎI donít mind what happensí doesnít mean Iím OK with all that lie, hypocrisy, bloodsheds and other mischiefs and conflicts of this world. Iím extremely unsatisfied with it and want most passionately to get out of it as soon as possible.
I donít accept all that and condemn it, but I donít also deny it; I donít just say itís normal and has to be that way.
I just say, that all is inevitable, and moreover, it leads to a bigger crisis in this humanís world until the human mentality, my own mentality will be changed.
So, I donít bother myself with changing of this world in anyway.
Iím way too busy with daily meditation to be changed myself, but being in that Iím not blind to the problems and sufferings of the other people.

If you like this interpretation, joe

In plain words, neither nor to this world, and Iím way too busy for all that shitty staff.

Well, that is certainly one way to interpret it...but, just to counterpoint, natura,  I accept the world as it is and I don't mind what happens are to me saying the same thing.

But anyway, joe,
have you understood the point I was trying to make?

Iím still thinking the subtle difference, not in the words, but in the essence, is absolutely necessary to be found out and seen in order to understand Krishnamurti, in order to meditate and so on.


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#61 2012-02-07 18:18:27

pearl
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Re: Cool Quotes.

Eden wrote:

pearl wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong.  No transformation is possible in the stream of consciousness, none.

What happens when one has already transformed oneself from that place of stillness? That is what I am talking about. I am talking about a person who is already whole, and you are still talking about those who are in the process of becoming whole.  We are both correct. We are just talking about two different persons.

Once one is whole, one can and may step back into stream and bring the full light of consciousness and love into it and transform it and transmute it.  Even a curse word can be transmuted into loving poetry if connected to the heart.  Pretty much anything can.  Any sword can be beaten into a plow shear when one's heart is full of love. 

A real man will step right into your patterns and love you through them and turn them into humor and laughter. In doing so they change.  Do you understand what I mean by that?  He won't try to step out of them or avoid them or fix them, rather he will bring is fullest and deepest love into them.  He is able to do that because he has already done the necessary work on himself and no doubt already came to a place where he was able to bring love and laughter into his own patterns too. If he hadn't, he certainly wouldn't be able to laugh at yours and love you through them and break the shells wide open in love, with a smile on his face.

There is no steping back into anything eden.  As for the real man, know that you are not that man for me.  Our minds don't meet with the same intensity, affection, understanding and that's fine.  You will find another woman who can meet you so, infact perhaps plenty of 'em, but I sure won't be that one for you, or for any other.

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#62 2012-02-07 18:29:10

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

natura wrote:

joe wrote:

natura wrote:


ĎI donít mind what happensí doesnít mean Iím OK with all that lie, hypocrisy, bloodsheds and other mischiefs and conflicts of this world. Iím extremely unsatisfied with it and want most passionately to get out of it as soon as possible.
I donít accept all that and condemn it, but I donít also deny it; I donít just say itís normal and has to be that way.
I just say, that all is inevitable, and moreover, it leads to a bigger crisis in this humanís world until the human mentality, my own mentality will be changed.
So, I donít bother myself with changing of this world in anyway.
Iím way too busy with daily meditation to be changed myself, but being in that Iím not blind to the problems and sufferings of the other people.

If you like this interpretation, joe

In plain words, neither nor to this world, and Iím way too busy for all that shitty staff.

Well, that is certainly one way to interpret it...but, just to counterpoint, natura,  I accept the world as it is and I don't mind what happens are to me saying the same thing.

But anyway, joe,
have you understood the point I was trying to make?

Iím still thinking the subtle difference, not in the words, but in the essence, is absolutely necessary to be found out and seen in order to understand Krishnamurti, in order to meditate and so on.

Yes, I found your passionate response made your point very well, and that point I do not dispute with you.  However, it was reading lao tsu (for me) that distilled that essence, and K merely echoed it (for me).  I read lao tsu five years or so before coming across K and I find it has more to do with the state of receptivity than the words themselves, you know?


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#63 2012-02-07 18:46:14

kirsten
Member
From: the netherlands
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 4061

Re: Cool Quotes.

interesting.. i read K first and lao tsu after..
and was a bit upset about how the translation in english seemed to miss the essence of it.

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#64 2012-02-07 19:15:56

RJ
Member
From: ChCh, New Zealand
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 4556

Re: Cool Quotes.

kirsten wrote:

interesting.. i read K first and lao tsu after..
and was a bit upset about how the translation in english seemed to miss the essence of it.

most translations of Lao Tsu is so bollockingly bad they should self-immolate for shame

Ursula K Le Guin is the one and only who gets him in English
because she's a she, and a writer of fiction and poetry
and because she is not trying to make him fit some 'how to' self-help improvement manual (shudder)

I will draw swords and meet at dawn anyone who disagrees with me on this
I have an opinion
it is resolute
unwaverable
and right...





oh dear

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#65 2012-02-07 20:17:07

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

with a reed the sword was shorn, and it was over...


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#66 2012-02-07 21:29:10

natura
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

kirsten wrote:

interesting.. i read K first and lao tsu after..
and was a bit upset about how the translation in english seemed to miss the essence of it.

The essence of what exactly, Kirsten? The first the second or of the both?


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#67 2012-02-07 21:47:40

natura
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Cool Quotes.

joe wrote:

natura wrote:

joe wrote:


Well, that is certainly one way to interpret it...but, just to counterpoint, natura,  I accept the world as it is and I don't mind what happens are to me saying the same thing.

But anyway, joe,
have you understood the point I was trying to make?

Iím still thinking the subtle difference, not in the words, but in the essence, is absolutely necessary to be found out and seen in order to understand Krishnamurti, in order to meditate and so on.

Yes, I found your passionate response made your point very well, and that point I do not dispute with you.  However, it was reading lao tsu (for me) that distilled that essence, and K merely echoed it (for me).  I read lao tsu five years or so before coming across K and I find it has more to do with the state of receptivity than the words themselves, you know?

I didnít mean to compare very much Lao-Tzu with Krishnamurti with my initial response to Eden. I rather wanted to direct a special attention at the point which I think is crucial and essentially necessary to understand to be able to meditate.

If you understand the essence of the principle Ďneither acceptation nor denialí, thatís fine, joe. Itís just important to know, to avoid unnecessary debates and save the time.

However, joe, I donít quite understand what you mean saying that: ĎÖI find it has more to do with the state of receptivity than the words themselvesí.


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#68 2012-02-07 21:58:01

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

I mean that when a person is ready to hear or see what it means, neither acceptance nor denial, then they will hear it and the messenger is not important.


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#69 2012-02-07 22:01:39

bruce sean
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2009-08-13
Posts: 13985

Re: Cool Quotes.

Tell that to pearl.

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#70 2012-02-07 22:05:27

pearl
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Posts: 8062

Re: Cool Quotes.

Brucey is back wanting to tell!:-)

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#71 2012-02-07 22:06:15

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

bruce wrote:

Tell that to pearl.

no thanks...


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#72 2012-02-07 22:07:03

bruce sean
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2009-08-13
Posts: 13985

Re: Cool Quotes.

Are you avoiding pearl, lately?

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#73 2012-02-07 22:08:09

bruce sean
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2009-08-13
Posts: 13985

Re: Cool Quotes.

pearl wrote:

Brucey is back wanting to tell!:-)

I did already, but to no avail. So I thought joe may find a way to get through to you.

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#74 2012-02-07 22:09:05

joe
Member
From: here
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 24418

Re: Cool Quotes.

bruce wrote:

Are you avoiding pearl, lately?

maybe you could call it that...I have found, through all of the past year, that there is no way to find entry to a fruitful dialogue under certain circumstances.

Last edited by joe (2012-02-07 22:10:03)


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#75 2012-02-07 22:15:14

bruce sean
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2009-08-13
Posts: 13985

Re: Cool Quotes.

Ok.

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